This week, an extended conversation with Sarah de Leeuw, co-author of the recent paper, Turning a new page: cultural safety, critical creative literary interventions, truth and reconciliation, and the crisis of child welfare. Written with Margo Greenwood, the paper was produced as part of their work at the National Collaborating Centre for Aboriginal Health, where Sarah is a Research Associate, Margo the Academic Lead. Over the course of this discussion, we explore de Leeuw and Greenwood's argument that the ongoing crisis of Indigenous child apprehensions must be viewed in their historical and cultural contexts. That is, as an extension of long-standing violent discourses that validate the 'rights' of settler-colonial state powers like Canada to intervene into the lives of Indigenous families and communities with impunity. // Our theme is 'nesting' by birocratic.