This week, is the state of Indigenous health care plagued by governmental ill will? Some might think so in Alberta, where a pair of provincial employees were punted for a racist text message about a First Nations school principal. Meanwhile, in Ottawa, the political battle over health care inequity for on-reserve kids continues as the feds announce they want parts of a human rights ruling quashed. Joining us this week with their diagnoses of what might be at the root of both situations are two physicians. Dr. Lisa Richardson is a clinician-educator with the University of Toronto's division of general internal medicine. Dr. Jason Pennington is a staff surgeon at Scarborough General Hospital and an assistant professor at the University of Toronto. Together, they serve as co-Leads for Indigenous Health Education with the U of T’s Office of Indigenous Medical Education. // Our theme is 'nesting' by birocratic.